la_marquise: (Goth marquise)
la_marquise ([personal profile] la_marquise) wrote2012-08-10 11:23 am
Entry tags:

Thought for the day: on public representation and the female body

I'm not a huge fan of sport, apart from tennis, and I'm more than capable of ignoring major sporting events while they're on. I'm also not at all a fan of competitions based on nationality, because to me, it seems they encourage all the worst forms of nationalism, jingoism and stupidity. In some cases, they fan conflict and hatred. There was a discussion of the skills and physical talents needed by sprinters last night on the BBC that I found disturbing, creepy and offensive, because it bordered on racial stereotyping, this time with 'genetics' as an excuse. I am going to write to them about this.

However, my mother came to stay with us last weekend, and she does like to watch the Olympics. So, while she was here, we spent a fair amount of time doing so, particularly track and field, which are her favourites. And I noticed something.

I'm feeling better than I have in years about my body. I'm not particularly fit, I'm not fashionably thin, I'm not pretty. But for the last week or so, I've felt at home in this too-tall, not-thing-enough, not-toned enough, not-young enough (all my usual mantras) body. It *works*. My legs can run -- not fast, but they do it happily. I can bend and reach, twist, turn and shape, I can pick up things and move them and make them, and it's all good. I feel normal.

It's down to all those fantastic women who I see using their talented bodies on the television, all those runners and shot-putters, tennis players, rowers, weight lifters, swimmers, riders, boxers, discus and hammer throwers. They are tall and short, they have broad shoulders or wide hips, they are large and small, they have long legs and short legs, square faces, round ones, oval ones. They're all different. Most of them are un-made up, they show me their everyday faces. The ones who are made-up (with the exception of the gymnasts, who are the sole ones who worry me) are clearly doing so for their own reasons and amusements. They have long hair and short. They are of all races. But what they have in common is that they live openly, unashamedly (as far as I can tell) in their bodies. They aren't airbrushed or photo-shopped, dressed to 'hide figure faults' or posed for specific angles. They just are. And I'm loving it. I love all these bold, brave, talented, *real* women. They make me proud of them, of their skill and talent and courage. They make me happy to have a female body, even though mine is nowhere near as fit, as young. They make me feel that I'm normal, because variety is normal.

I want them on my screen every day, because I love this feeling. I know that in a few weeks it will be back to ideals and horrors -- perfect women and 'failed' ones who are too big, too plain, too old, not good enough. That depresses me. I want younger women than me to see the variety of other women, to see women who love who they are, women who are clearly talented and gifted and wonderful without the trailing back-stories that tv drama demands. I want us all to feel that it's all right to be us, in all our sizes and races, ages and shapes. Thank you, Ye Shiwen, Tirunesh DiBaba, Shelly-Ann Fraser Price, Jessica Ennis, Shara Proctor, Nicola Adams, Gabrielle Douglas, Sanya Richards-Ross, Nadzeya Ostapchuk, Joanna Rowsell, Zhou Lulu, and all your sister athletes. You are making the world a happier place for other women.
And I'm really looking forward to the paralympics and even more awesome women.

Skirt of the day: green silk wrap.

[identity profile] fjm.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 10:37 am (UTC)(link)
This is why I came to love weight lifting: watching my body move gave me an appreciation of it as a piece of machinery. See this: http://womenonthefence.com/tag/love-the-body-shape-you-were-born-with/

I want it on a poster somewhere.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I want that as a poster, too. In every primary school.

[identity profile] hawkwing-lb.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 10:49 am (UTC)(link)
And Katie Taylor!

(Not that I'm excited about an Irish women's boxing Olympic gold medallist, or anything. Well. Maybe a little bit. :) )

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, she's fabulous!

[identity profile] bellinghman.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 10:49 am (UTC)(link)
There's one thing particularly noticeable: the breast size of almost all of these women. There is this assumption that when it comes to women's breasts, more must be better, to the extent that hundreds of thousands of British women alone undergo invasive surgery to 'improve' them.

And it's not just women - men are pressured to prefer the larger breast.

And that's wrong, horribly wrong, because it's been part of trying to shovel all women into a single image of physical attractiveness. It's also telling us men that we should prefer women to look like 'this', not like 'that'.

Not all men prefer large breasts, just as not all men like the same height of women.

So to see fit, healthy women who don't fit that plastic image of perfection that's so often peddled is wonderful. And in my opinion, every one is more attractive than (for example) Katie Price with all her 'enhancements'.
Edited 2012-08-10 10:51 (UTC)

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:30 pm (UTC)(link)
You are the first to mention Katie Price.
You win a biscuit :-)

[identity profile] elmyra.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 10:58 am (UTC)(link)
The thing about the sprinters was really disturbing.

And yes, it does feel like we've seen more variety in female body shape on telly over the last couple of week than over the entire year before that. And yet, British weightlifter Zoe Smith was criticised on Twitter for being unfeminine, Judo silver medalist Gemma Gibbons was asked about her hair, and just this morning Taw Kwon Do Olympic champion Jade Jones was asked if she was "naturally aggressive". So stereotypes and gender policing are still around.

But overall yes, it's been great to see women achieving amazing things with their bodies, which they clearly feel comfortable in.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, some aspects of public response has been very creepy, and rooted in our culture of misogyny. But the women themselves are wonderful.

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 11:08 am (UTC)(link)
I find so much to be disturbed at in the present sport presentation- they're starting to dress up some of the girls in posh frocks a la 'geddaloadathat' and these women are plainly pandering to this idiocy.

Some women plainly don't fit the stereotype- the travails of the African runner, Caster Semenya, is a prime example- questions asked about her gender because she's tall and powerful and fast. The testing insisted upon was invasive and abusive and proved? That she was born and is a woman- a tall, powerful, fast woman. Well deary me, quelle surprise! No one makes such statements about Usain Bolt.........he just has to put up with being described as an 'alpha male'. He runs fast for Pete's sake!

Questions are being asked about whether women should box because it's perceived as not 'ladylike' (I'd be more inclined to ask whether anyone should, but there you go.)

But then I suppose I would get annoyed at all this- after all, I've undergone a lot of questions about my own body..........usually from people who think they know it better than I do. :o/

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:35 pm (UTC)(link)
The media debate surrounding it is deeply disturbing in many ways -- and the gymnasts worry me (also the synchronised swimmers) because they clearly have to be 'pretty' as well as talented. And what happened to Caster Semenya -- and at this games the questions a man raised over Ye Shiwen -- are misogyny at its worst.
What I am loving is the women themselves. They're boxing because they want to. Shelly-Ann Fraser-Price's yellow hair-ribbon isn't high-tech, it isn't there to help her performance; it's clearly there for her, because it makes her happy. They wear their scars openly, too -- look at Rowsell. And that I love. Many of them seem to know who they are.
I'm really looking forward to the paralympics, because there will be many more awesome women.

(no subject)

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 12:37 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 15:35 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 16:39 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 17:11 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 18:16 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 18:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 22:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com - 2012-08-13 07:34 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 18:07 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 22:25 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] pola-bear.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 13:46 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] nipernaadiagain.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 11:12 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you for a thought provoking entry. I also do not usually watch sports and, more, my body does not always work as it is supposed to. But what you have written about your feelings makes sense to me, so I have to think about it a bit more.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:36 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm looking forward even more to the paralympics, in fact, because the women athletes are astonishing.
I was surprised at how more positive I feel, just from seeing an array of sizes and shapes, in fact. I am so conditioned to see only the perfect, the approved of, on screen.

[identity profile] twinfair.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 11:34 am (UTC)(link)
> The ones who are made-up (with the exception of the gymnasts, who are the sole ones who worry me)...

Er, have you seen the synchonised swimmers?

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Only briefly, but yes, they're worrying, too. The disease of mandatory prettiness...
lagilman: coffee or die (Default)

[personal profile] lagilman 2012-08-10 11:38 am (UTC)(link)
The healthy, active, energetic human animal is a beautiful animal. End of story.


I have always attributed my relatively healthy body esteem to having been a (mediocre but enthusiastic) athlete as a teenager - fencing and horseback riding and canoeing all taught me to pull my shoulders back and keep my head up, and what's learned between 9 and 15 stays with you the rest of your life....


[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes.
Whereas I am Too Tall, and have been since I was 18. SIgh.

(no subject)

[identity profile] inamac.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 14:08 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] birdsedge.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 15:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] xenaclone.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 16:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] klwilliams.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 19:31 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 15:39 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 16:48 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] cmcmck.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 17:15 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 18:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 22:28 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-10 18:45 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 18:49 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] lagilman - 2012-08-10 22:41 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] shermarama - 2012-08-10 19:40 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] tyrell.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 11:43 am (UTC)(link)
Nice to see that even genres as typically mindblowingly problematic as superhero comics are using the Olympic athletes to talk about realistic body shapes. (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/08/09/olympians-superhero-bodies-and-what-real-athletes-look-like/)

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 12:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I hadn't seen that. Thank you.

[identity profile] dorispossum.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 11:55 am (UTC)(link)
Well said! :) Watching Nicola Adams yesterday, it was a joy to see a woman fizzing with power and exuberance, without the slightest thought of 'editing' her external presentation. As you say, we live in a culture that works every manipulation going to make women (even girls) embarrassed to express their natural physical energy. So watching short/tall/squat/slender/gravity-heavy/feather-light/soft/angular - every shape going - women alight with the extraordinary power of what their bodies can DO - not LOOK like - has been an amazing experience. And spectacular to watch.

Also loved the horse dancing!

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
The horses were spectacular.

[identity profile] aliettedb.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 12:57 pm (UTC)(link)
They are all wonderful women--it is exhilarating to see them in all their diversity, and realise that so much of our time is spent yearning for shapes that aren't even healthy!

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 01:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, precisely.
I was thinking about your grandmother, during the tennis!

(no subject)

[identity profile] aliettedb.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 13:09 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] murphys-lawyer.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 01:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I caught the piece on "genetics" and the "nature versus nurture" discussion afterword. It had its good points - clearly pointing out that ingrained prejudice tops any attempt at scientific selection, and the inevitable conclusion is ugly in the extreme - and its bad ones - why no mention of the US's Tuskegee experiment, or British cheerleaders for eugenics such as Marie Stopes or HG Wells?

However, to air it just before the 200 metres final gave legitimacy to the damned trope that one race excels at sprinting because its in their genes, while others have to work at it; and I was amazed by the politeness of the commentators in debunking it.

It would have been much better off well after the games as a Horizon programme with more change to explore the whole idea further and make it clear that a) eugenics as an idea has been discredited and b) the latest theories on genetics are as yet unproven.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 02:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, absolutely.

[identity profile] anef.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 03:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I couldn't agree more. And I have been inspired to make a bit more effort with the rowing machine! (Though not today - too hot.)

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 04:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I thought of you, watching the rowing!

[identity profile] enggirl.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 04:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow. You just hit on something that's been nagging at the back of my mind but I couldn't--didn't--realize enough to put into words. I usually see pretty/thin/whatever women and feel like shit about myself. That's why I don't read 'women's magazines' (except for the cooking ones!) as a rule. And what little I saw in the early days of the Olympics were photos of beach volleyball players' butts. Which is troublesome (the women's 'uniforms' vs the men's, etc.). BUT as I've finally got TV after the move and have been tuning in each night for the games, I've been seeing these women kicking ass and haven't once felt crappy about myself. These women are using their bodies the way they're meant to be used. To an extreme most of us will never need, of course, but they're lifting and running and jumping and fighting, not being propped up against a pretty background and told to suck in their gut and push out the boobs, pout, look sexy, look skinny, look impossibly perfect without ever being shown to lift a finger to attain that state.

Sure, I've gained back weight I lost over a year ago, but I'm getting older. I'm still out there running a few times a week and doing what I can to maintain the weight I'm at now. I'll never be a marathoner or a sprinter, but I'm ok with that. And, I think the women athletes would be, too. Whereas the women (models and others) who buy into the idea of 'perfection' wouldn't. They would judge me because they are so busy judging themselves. Maybe part of it is the fact that the athletes are so focused on faster, stronger, higher, better, they're not so much focused (as far as our perspective) on weight, boob size, hip size, whatever size. If their bodies work at whatever shape or weight, they work. And as long as mine does, too, grand :)

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 04:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, very much this.

(no subject)

[identity profile] kateelliott.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 19:07 (UTC) - Expand
ext_15862: (Default)

[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 04:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm loving this too - and the variety of voices and regional accents.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 04:59 pm (UTC)(link)
It's so good to hear voices from all over.

[identity profile] kateelliott.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
1) that anon comment about height was me

2) Thanks for writing this. I love the Olympics for many reasons and one is the reason you cite. I do notice how things have changed over the 40 years I've watched, though. The women are far more proudly strong and competitive now.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I wondered if it was you, because we are much of a height!
And yes, I think the women are a lot more confident, and it's wonderful to behold.

[identity profile] miintikwa.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 07:20 pm (UTC)(link)
You know, I felt similar pride in the beauty of the athletic women, too. I loved seeing them, loved seeing their grace and their confidence.

I still feel "too," but now it's mostly just too crippled. And sad that moving and working out and doing all the things I loved to do years ago are so hard for me. And that's a good feeling, too, in a bittersweet way.
Edited 2012-08-10 19:21 (UTC)

(no subject)

[identity profile] miintikwa.livejournal.com - 2012-08-10 19:31 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] klwilliams.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 07:28 pm (UTC)(link)
It *works*. My legs can run -- not fast, but they do it happily. I can bend and reach, twist, turn and shape, I can pick up things and move them and make them, and it's all good. I feel normal.

I love watching the athletes doing amazing things in their bodies, and I'm glad you're enjoying your body. I loved the feeling of my body working. I hope you continue to love your body, exactly the way you do today, and I hope your body can still do all those things for the rest of your life. It's a wonderful feeling. I miss feeling normal.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. This is why I love the paralympics more, if that makes sense? because all bodies can be amazing.
ext_267: Photo of DougS, who has a round face with thinning hair and a short beard (Picocon)

[identity profile] dougs.livejournal.com 2012-08-10 07:32 pm (UTC)(link)
What a very pleasing post to have read.
shermarama: (Default)

[personal profile] shermarama 2012-08-10 07:51 pm (UTC)(link)
One of the things that's really been pleasing me is that there's not even one 'right' shape for one event - tall swimmers who win on power but also short swimmers who win on precision, and just this evening, big beefy hammer throwers of the traditional shape and much slimmer ones that have the technique sorted. I like the idea that being the shape I am doesn't mean I can only do certain sports, basically, even if I'm unlikely to take up any of them right now.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-10 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes! It's fabulous.
rmc28: Rachel in hockey gear on the frozen fen at Upware, near Cambridge (Default)

[personal profile] rmc28 2012-08-12 04:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I made similar comments to [livejournal.com profile] fanf who pointed out wouldn't it be wonderful if we had equal time for men's and women's sports all the time rather than just these last two weeks. More women becoming household names, more realistic ideas of what makes a healthy body becoming mainstream ... well, I can dream.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-13 10:58 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, absolutely. I'd be a lot more likely to watch sport if there were more women shown, too.
shermarama: (Default)

[personal profile] shermarama 2012-08-14 06:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Sorry, just another afterthought, because this post came back to mind while I was watching the closing ceremony. There was a segment that was supposed to represent Britain's contribution to fashion (I don't know what that had to do with a sporting event, although it was a good excuse to play some David Bowie) and there were a bunch of famous British models involved, including Kate Moss. And the main thing I thought, when they were revealed from behind curtains, is how underwhelming they looked compared to all those athletes we'd seen. Standing there in static poses, with the sort of understated smile that probably normally qualifies as mysterious or alluring, but compared to all those energetic and celebrating athletes around them, they just looked uninterested and uninteresting. Ha.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2012-08-14 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I have to admit to having very similar thoughts!

[identity profile] pwilkinson.livejournal.com 2012-08-14 06:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Something related that I came across a few days back (while looking at something about which I hope to post to my own LJ in a day or two)...

When, in the 1950s, the International Rowing Federation agreed to allow women's events, it insisted that, while men's events were rowed over 2,000 metres, women's events should only be rowed over 1,000 metres - the poor things wouldn't have the stamina to cope with the full distance. So when women's rowing was introduced to the Olympics in 1976, women still rowed only half the men's distance.

After a campaign by women rowers and officials, this was changed in the 1980s - both men and women now row 2,000 metres. But most of the people making the decision were men - and often rather conservative ones. So why did they agree?

Apparently, one of the reasons was that, during the intervening thirty years, some countries (mostly eastern European) had realised that with sufficiently physically strong athletes, a 1,000 metre rowing race could be treated as a sprint - if they went hell for leather for the finish line, they could reach it before they burned out. This did, however, mean that the physical specification for a championship woman rower was very close to that for a championship bodybuilder. Over 2000 metres, stamina became more important - and the physical specification, while still muscular, was far less visibly so. In other words, a more attractive body shape.