SF Signal Mind Meld: On revolutions and independence movements

[la_marquise]

I'm over at SF Signal, as one of their Mind Meld authors discussing books about revolutions and independence movements today. There are some great recommendations there.

And Happy 4th July to my friends in the USA.

Skirt of the day: denim.

Comments

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

Since I spend my days studying revolutions, civil wars and independence movements, you'll excuse me from having to read fiction about them as well, I hope? :o)

I'm too aware of the realities to be comfortable with the fictional representation of same.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Of course!

[marina-bonomi.livejournal.com]

Thank you for suggesting Lady Oscar, after so many years I'm still in love with that series.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

So am I. It astonishes me that it's not known outside Japan and parts of Europe. It's a wonderful series, both as a manga and an anime.

[marina-bonomi.livejournal.com]

I haven't had the opportunity to read the manga yet, but I plan to as soon as I can (on the whole, both manga and anime are a cult phenomenon here but rather difficult to get hold of).

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

The manga is even better than the anime, I think. There's more character development, and, certainly in the French edition, you get the extra stories, too (about Oscar, Andre and her niece Loulou in the happy days). I got mine in French. If I see an Italian edition, I will let you know.

[marina-bonomi.livejournal.com]

Thank you, but after your comment I think I'll go straight for the French edition :) (need to keep my French in shape as well, two birds with a stone and all that...).
How many volumes there are?

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

There are 3 -- the main story in two big volumes and then a smaller 3rd volume with the extras. Amazon in France seem to have the Italian editions, too, at present. (Possibly 2nd hand, but...)

[marina-bonomi.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'm hopping over to have a look. :)

[al-zorra.livejournal.com]

The rhetoric about our War of Independence, which was no revolution at all, always in which the news media say straight out that when it's a choice between the facts and the legend they will always print the legend.

Our revolution was Emancipation in 1863 of our Civil War, followed by the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments.

I'm far from being original in say that! :)

What is also interesting and significant is how often there are actual revolutions that change power structures, but there have been few revolutions that can actually change culture, even despite, for instance, China's Cultural Revolution. Culture rubber bands back to itself time after time. We're even seeing it in the Feminist Revolution here, made possible by the revolution in contraception -- we're rubber banding back to women in the home and low paying gigs -- and there is a powerful and very well funded movement to take away the contraception and other reproductive rights that allowed us to go to work as professionals in large numbers.

Love, C.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

The Chinese view of history as cyclical has always made sense to me: as you say, many revolutions are about politics but replicate culture, including, all too often, its worst aspects.
I've never studied US history. We got down to about 1700 before we started the exam years at school, then did 20th century world history for the exams. And then I turned into a mediaevalist.

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

It's a fair point. As an early modernist studying European warfare, rebellion and revolution, it never ceases to amaze me how conservative and even reactionary the outcomes invariably are. The English republic, for example, failed because no one was able to see beyond the construct of Monarchy and the outcome was Lord Protector Oliver, a king in all but name- and it's with us yet, sadly.

Many historians forget the central position of religion in the European wars of the 17th century- and that centrality is why the Marxist viewpoint of Hill et all never worked for me.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Religion is the element that we consistently get wrong, in our post-enlightenment world. The assumption is that it *can't* matter, which is, of course, ridiculous.

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

I always knew it mattered from my long term study of the Wars of the Three Kingdoms but beginning to look at the Thirty Years' War more recently really bought it home to me- there was no more destructive conflict until the outbreak of WW1 which gives one pause for thought.

If it really didn't matter, why was most of central Europe reduced to a disease ridden, starving bloodbath for thirty years in the early to mid 17th century?

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Precisely.

[gillpolack.livejournal.com]

That's very true. Getting people to change habits and attitudes can take generations.

[aliettedb.livejournal.com]

Loved your contribution! (bit disappointed by some of the others, which seem woefully simplistic...)
And I really should try Lady Oscar, it sounds like great fun.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Do: I'm very fond of it. Oscar is a great character: I wish she was available in English, for my niece to read. It's La Rose de Versailles in the French edition, directly translating the Japanese, which I also like.

[miintikwa.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :) *hugs*

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't wish a revolution on my worst enemies in the world. Unless it could happen without negative consequences for me and mine. In which case, have at it, do.

Someone I know told me, only partially in jest, that a popular new curse in assorted bits of the Middle East is "May the Americans bring democracy to your country!"

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Now that is an interesting curse.
I have mixed feelings about revolutions. The often fail and end up serving the same interests, and yet sometimes there is no other way to make something plain.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

Armchair warmongers are common in the more comfy sort of society. Nonetheless, given the sea of blood that most revolutions spill, I don't think it's for people who risk nothing to advocate revolution other than in their own country.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Oh, no-one who isn't prepared to be harmed should ever advocate revolution, I agree. That's why I picked the books I did: they endorse that and examine the consequences honestly.
(Me, I am willing to pay the price if it came to it here. But I am odd, as we know. And I'm not willing to sacrifice others, so...)