la_marquise: (Horus)
la_marquise ([personal profile] la_marquise) wrote2014-03-06 09:56 am

I have a question

Dear SFF Community,

Most of the time, I'm proud to be part of you. I'm proud to be part of a community that Matched It For Pratchett and regularly raises money for Talking Books for the Blind. I'm proud to be part of a community that is strongly, vocally, actively working to ensure our space is fully accessible, convenient and pleasant for people with disabilities. I'm proud to be part of a community that set up the Carl Brandon Society and Con Or Bust. I'm proud to be part of a community which, on seeing institutionalised racism, sexismn, trans*phobia, homophobia, hostility to people who reject gender normativity, turned around and, yes, argued, long and loud and continuously, but also set out to clean house and make ourselves better. Very few other groups linked by common interest have done that. Most of them seem to prefer to gaslight and bully those who raise such issues. I'm proud to belong to a community that sees its own shortcomings. Yes, we could do better. We can always do better.

There are some great things going on in our community right now. Nine Worlds is working to create and maintain a con environment that is welcoming to PoC, QUILTBAG people, fans with disabilities, new fans. Many cons now have and enforce Codes of Conduct aimed at fostering inclusivity and safety. Con committees are working to find ways to recruit new fans, younger fans. SFWA is working actively to end a culture of normative sexism and racism. Women writers are banding together to address equality in bookshop promotions. Writers of colour are speaking up and working to address the inequality they face. People from across the fan spectrum are supporting and signal-boosting them.

And we are all rooted in the societies that raised us, societies that are, mainly, institutionally racismt sexist, tran*- , xeno- and homo-phobic, hostile to people who face physical and mental challenges, wqhich blame the poor and underprivileged for their difficulties. We were most of us raised in cultures that fostered this, often unconsciously. We are surrounded by images and actions which reinforce an unequal status quo. It awes me that so many in our community fight this, in both their cultures and themselves. IT awed me that we stand up to those who are within the community who seem to revel in their prejudices and tell them, No More.

But, right now, I have a question for you. Why, when we fight these battles, do we so often resort to the same old patriarchal norms? Why do we reserve our greatest spleen for *women* and defend our right to do so? That, I put to you, needs addressing and it needs addressing now. I really don't want to comment on Loncon 3 and Jonathan Ross: enough has been said and said in all kinds of ways. My personal view on it, for those who will demand to know such things, is that I think the chairs made a mistake here. He is a fan, certainly, but he is also controversial and divisive for well-rehearsed reasons. At the same time, he's very popular, particularly with the younger demographic and would certainly have drawn in new, younger attendees. So I can also see that the chairs had reasons on their side too. I don't think the chairs are bad people. I know both of them, have done for years, and they have both worked long and hard for inclusivity in UK fandom. This time, trying for one kind of that, they made a mistake in another kind. We all make mistakes. They don't -- they shouldn't -- cast us into pits of hellfire for all eternity. If that were the case, then the Vox Days have won: they don't care about making mistakes, they just carry on. If we throw each other out of the lifeboat one by one, we end up with no-one.

That's one thing. But I want to go back to my question. Why is the worst reserved for women?
Here's what I saw: a woman, who is a survivor of bullying and class oppression, expressed her concerns over the material that might be used by Mr Ross and how it might affect her. A large number of people, male and female, lit into her for daring to express her fears in public, for being 'mean', for being out of line.
Women must be Good.
A young woman, who is related to Mr Ross, tried to reassure her and was distressed by all the things that were being said. Another woman, the mother of that young woman, stepped in to defend her daughter. She perhaps did not do so tactfully, but she was faced with an upset and unhappy child. And, a number of people lit into her for daring to express her feelings in public, for being 'mean', for being out of line.
Women must be Good.
Both the adult women are now silent on twitter. One has felt driven to delete her account. These women have in fact spoken to each other calmly and come to mutual understanding. But people on all sides -- pro-Ross and anti- him -- are continuing to abuse both these women. I'm seeing more of that than I am people questioning his form of comedy or the chairs' decision. I'm seeing women as a group involved in this being demonised in the press and on social media, for being strident mean girls, bullies, sell-outs etc etc etc.
Because Women must be Good.
Neither of these adult women committed a crime. It's not a crime to be distressed and triggered about potential harassment. It's not a crime to feel the need to defend your child verbally. But people are using the tone argument on both of them, because women Must Be Good. They are demanding complete recanting and surrender. They are demanding recognition for a perceived right to abuse women.
Because women must be Good, and a woman out of line is far worse than a controversial man or a questionable decision.
This is patriarchy at its best, using us to undermine each other. I've seen you, men who position as allies, poking fun at that first woman, implying her concerns are trivial, stupid, blamable. I've seen you, women who I love and admire and support, demanding a right to punish a woman for being married to a man you disapprove of. I've seen male allies and vocal feminists falling straight into the patriarchy trap and blaming the women.
Shape up. Look at who is gaining here. Not us. Oh no. The winner> The system that says women must bear responsibility for policing and controlling male behaviour, that women must adapt their bodies and thoughts and actions to suit male expectations and desires, that women must attain to and keep far higher standards than men at all times, that Women Must Be Perfect.
Mr Ross will not be hosting the Hugos. The concerns the community had over inclusivity and safety were heard. Inclusivity and safety won out.
Yet somehow the long term winner seems to be patriarchal thinking.
And I want to know why.

[identity profile] a-d-medievalist.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 06:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, it's something we'll never know, but when push comes to shove, I'd take 'good atmosphere' over being taken seriously in the mainstream and raising the profile of the Hugos any day. Considering that about 60% of the top-grossing films of all time fall within sf/f, there's an entire tv station devoted to it, several of the most popular tv series of the last 10 years have been sf/f, and re-runs of older series are a staple in both the US and the UK, and that's not even counting comics and MMORPGs ... how much more mainstream can the genre be?

And fandom? I'm sorry, but how could it possibly matter what people think? People willing enough to spend time and money on the accoutrements of fandom are no more (or less) mainstream than any other group of people who spend a lot of time and money on any hobby, whether it's LARPing the Civil War or diving or collecting spoons. It's a first-world problem.

[identity profile] daveon.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 06:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Which comes back to a hard question that was asked several months ago by a lot of the book bloggers about the relevance of Worldcon fandom. I think your position is perfectly valid btw and I've somewhat argued for it against Jonathon McChalmont - but there is an alternative perspective and that's where this seems to have emerged.

[identity profile] masgramondou.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 06:45 pm (UTC)(link)
The "Woman must be good" part seems like an example of What Mary Beard was writing about here

http://www.lrb.co.uk/2014/02/14/mary-beard/the-public-voice-of-women

[identity profile] sweetmusic-27.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 06:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for this thoughtful post - I've linked it a few places on the internet, now, and in return I just wanted to link a couple other interesting ones here, two posts on discourse, feminism, and the languages of bullying and blame as it relates to this situation:

http://www.thismess.net/2014/03/seanan-mcguires-angry-mob.html

http://www.kameronhurley.com/with-great-power-comes-great-responsibility-on-empathy-and-the-power-of-privilege/

[identity profile] kateelliott.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 07:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for writing this.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2014-03-06 07:25 pm (UTC)(link)
She's a wise, wise woman. And yes, absolutely.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2014-03-06 07:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for reading.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/ 2014-03-06 07:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you! Those are good links.

[identity profile] sweetmusic-27.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you so much for linking that brilliant essay.

[identity profile] princejvstin.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I have no answers. :(

[identity profile] major-clanger.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 11:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Not that I am aware of, although if a convention does call the police one of the first things to do (after making sure that the complainant is being taken care of appropriately) would be to let the venue know. In fact, my inclination if at all possible and if it wasn't likely to induce delay would be to go to the duty manager and say "there has been an incident that requires police attention, please call them now." That way, the venue is in the loop from the outset.

(I appreciate that to do this requires that the convention has staff confident about doing this, and a relationship with the hotel that means that such a request will be honoured immediately. This is thus the sort of contingency that ought to be discussed with a venue in advance, .)

[identity profile] daveon.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Ironically, his choice as host would have probably got me along to the Hugos having previously decided that they're usually too dull and badly presented to be worth bothering with :p

This year I'll be going for a curry with friends I suspect unless something 'amazing' happens.

[identity profile] major-clanger.livejournal.com 2014-03-06 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
There is a range of behaviour that is not acceptable, or at least problematic, but falls short of that which the police would deal with.

Two examples of such behaviour I've had to deal with at recent conventions:

One was a young man who was reported to me as having a tendency to stare at women's cleavages during conversation. (We're talking more than just having a glance down here; it was more "he is making me uncomfortable by conversing with my breasts.") I had a discreet word with him to ask if he realised what he was doing and he appeared to be genuinely mortified and we had no more comments about him.

The other was a man, known to me as a regular con-goer, who was reported by several non-white fans as having engaged them in uninvited and rather patronising conversation centred on their race. Again, I took him aside for a discreet word. It turned out that he had thought he would try to be welcoming to non-white fans, but had not realised that he was been appallingly crass in his approach. I'm not sure he really realised exactly why he was annoying people, but he promised to back off and again we had no more comments about him.

Neither of those involved behaviour that was illegal and had we involved the police we would have been on the receiving end of a stern talk about wasting police time. But equally such behaviour was causing discomfort to some of our members and needed to be dealt with. That is where having a Code of Conduct is useful because you can point to it and ask people to comply.

[identity profile] miintikwa.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
I don't have any brilliant things to add, but I love this entry with a huge expansive love, and thank you for speaking it.

[identity profile] alfreda89.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 04:16 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you, Kari. Someone had to offer up the question.

[identity profile] gillpolack.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 04:48 am (UTC)(link)
The problem is not with Ross's professionalism (how far he understands the limits of a particular gig, how far he understands the sensitivities of the community) - although they come into it. The main problem with him as host was and always has been with the permissions that his reputation gives others with less sense. Even if he were perfection personified and gracious and welcoming and charming and affirming, idiots would read the Wikipedia article and take his public presence as a permission.

[identity profile] gillpolack.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 04:55 am (UTC)(link)
I agree with you - if the story had been changed, we could have had much better outcomes and much less of a complete mess. But the whole underlying problem is that the story was being fed by narratives (concerning bullying, concerning targeting, concerning minorities and disadvantaged groups, concerning being heard, concerning being safe) that hadn't been fully challenged. This whole debacle is a major step, I think, in working out what we need to do to challenge our assumptions to the point where we can write better narratives and start participating in stories that are less worrying.

[identity profile] penguineggs.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 06:59 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, very well said. And you don't just have to read the Wkipedia article: if you're British, odds on you know exactly who he is and what he's famous for, and what he's famous for does undercut the anti-harassment policy

[identity profile] anna-wing.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 07:24 am (UTC)(link)
Certainly. But where is the redress for actual crimes of molestation and assault? Claiming that the law should be the last resort lets people treat real criminal offences as if they are no more serious than bad manners, denies women legal protection to which they are entitled, allows criminals to escape scot-free and encourages everyone else to continue minimising the issue.

[identity profile] anna-wing.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 07:25 am (UTC)(link)
I'm lobbying hard for a return to telex. Better security, too.
mneme: (Default)

[personal profile] mneme 2014-03-07 07:58 am (UTC)(link)
This.

[identity profile] anna-wing.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 08:53 am (UTC)(link)
My guess would be that McGuire also got the brunt of the insults because her first specific concern was about being laughed at for being fat. That was a revelation of personal vulnerability (unlike Stross' concerns which were couched in relatively impersonal terms) and the pack smelled blood and went after her.

[identity profile] anna-wing.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 09:05 am (UTC)(link)
It is a continuum of behaviour, the equivalent of the broken windows theory of law enforcement. Nip the small things in the bud and they will not grow (societally speaking) into big things. Bottom-pinching is an assault. Punish it accordingly and there will be a lot less of more serious assaults.

[identity profile] gillpolack.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 09:13 am (UTC)(link)
Except for my grammar, which is tangled, I'm afraid. This is not usual for me, and I'm very sorry.

[identity profile] davegullen.livejournal.com 2014-03-07 09:42 am (UTC)(link)
You couldn't have put it better.

If I didn't have a couple of commitments at LonCon I wouldn't now go, but I don't want to let people down. I keep telling myself the place will be, in the main, full of nice people. Even so I don't really want to be there.

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